No Guilt Mom

How to Succeed and Thrive When Life Throws You a Curveball with Dave Hollis

February 14, 2023 No Guilt Mom, JoAnn Crohn, Brie Tucker, Dave Hollis Episode 171
No Guilt Mom
How to Succeed and Thrive When Life Throws You a Curveball with Dave Hollis
Show Notes Transcript

Life can be both rewarding and challenging at the same time. We often have what we believe to be a certain path for our lives and what we want for our families, but sometimes life throws us an unexpected curveball. We can feel overwhelmed, uncertain, and scared. We can feel lost in what our lives were meant to be and what our purpose is. Sometimes we just want to throw our arms up in the arm in complete frustration. But instead of doing that, what if you take this opportunity to get your bearings and find what you’re truly meant to do? And in the meantime, show your kids that we all can do scary things, and even the unexpected isn’t such a bad thing.

In this podcast episode, we’re joined by Dave Hollis. Dave is an author, podcast host, and entrepreneur and helps small business owners as an integrator/consultant. He a busy dad to four kids ages 15, 14, 10, and 5, has been a foster parent many times over, and he just released a new children's book called Here's to Your Dreams!: A Teatime with Noah Book.

We get candid about life and parenting and how sometimes, we’re so sure of what our life is meant to be; only to realize that we have a completely different journey awaiting us. And how when we share those experiences with our kids, how we can not only survive, but thrive throughout those unknowns- it can help build those skills in them to believe that we can do scary things.

Resources We Shared:

Happy Mom Summit
A FREE online virtual event that brings you expert-led sessions, and a thriving community of like-minded moms ready to kick the guilt while raising respectful and responsible kids. The summit will be held live from February 27th-March 6th, 2023. Get your free ticket today at!

Here's to Your Dreams!: A Teatime with Noah Book by Dave Hollis

Built Through Courage: Face Your Fears to Live the Life You Were Meant For by Dave Hollis

The Gap and The Gain: The High Achievers' Guide to Happiness, Confidence, and Success by Dan Sullivan and Dr. Benjamin Hardy


Rocket Fuel: The One Essential Combination That Will Get You More of What You Want from Your Business by Gino Wickman and Mark C. Winters

Visit No Guilt Mom

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the No Guilt Mom Podcast on Apple here. We’d love to hear your thoughts on the podcast!

MOMignited Summit- This is a free online event to help you find what fires you up, eliminate what drains you, and finally stop feeling like you're just getting by, so you can show up as the mom you want to be.  Happening LIVE Oct. 9th-Oct.13th! Get your free ticket now at

Transcripts for No Guilt Mom Episode 171 with Dave Hollis

Please note: Transcripts are created using AI. There may be some errors.

[00:00:00] JoAnn Crohn: Welcome to The No Guilt Mom podcast. I am your host, JoAnn Crohn. Joined here by my co-host, Brie Tucker. 

[00:00:07] Brie Tucker: Wow. Hello. Hello, every buddy. How are you? . 

[00:00:10] JoAnn Crohn: We are just enjoying our time here. Brie and I are both coming off of kind of hard days. As I was saying before, I got a speeding ticket today. It's not great , but you have those days where you're just like, okay, so this thing happened at the beginning and I just need to get through it. Right?

[00:00:28] Brie Tucker: 100%. Yeah. 

[00:00:30] JoAnn Crohn: And I haven't gotten a speeding ticket for 20 years. Like it's been a while. 

[00:00:36] Brie Tucker: Well, that's been a topic of conversation in our household because we're teaching, you know, my oldest to drive and yeah, every, and in the beginning he was so slow and we would get out on the roads, we'd be like, Hey, you gotta least be with the flow of traffic.

Now I catch him speeding on the main road right by my house that, you know, Val Vista, he's just, I'm like, slow down dude. I was like, this is not when you wanna get a speeding ticket, you don't even have a license yet. . 

[00:01:02] JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. 

[00:01:02] Brie Tucker: And I used to get a ton of speeding tickets when I was younger, like, I, I probably have had at least 15 speeding tickets in my, in my 

[00:01:10] JoAnn Crohn: really?! 

[00:01:10] Brie Tucker: Past.


[00:01:11] JoAnn Crohn: yeah. 

I only got easy one, easy one, and it was driving back from Las Vegas in college and I was going real fast, like 106 miles per hour fast. Yeah. It was real fast. And the cop who pulled me over was like, I should be taking you to jail right now. This is criminal speed. I'm like, I know.

I'm sorry. I actually had to. Use the bathroom. I had pee . 

[00:01:34] Brie Tucker: Oh my God. 

[00:01:35] JoAnn Crohn: I mean, I didn't think I would get caught like that. 

[00:01:38] Brie Tucker: Was it just you? Was there anybody else in the car? 

[00:01:40] JoAnn Crohn: No, me and three friends. And we were driving actually my friend's mom's car. So that was a whole thing. I felt so stupid cuz I did it because I thought I could get away with it. Cause it was like just empty roads, like empty. I wasn't passing anyone. There was like no one else there except the cop. 

[00:01:55] Brie Tucker: He was hiding somewhere. I would've peed myself probably right when I saw him, I'd be like, okay, it's done. It's done. . 

[00:02:02] JoAnn Crohn: That one stayed on my record for so long and I haven't actually gotten another speeding ticket since that one.


[00:02:09] Brie Tucker: Wow. 

[00:02:10] JoAnn Crohn: So this morning when I was pulling, I'm like, I see it in the rear room mirror. I'm like, Is it pulling me over? I was just so beside myself and it was because it was a street, one of those streets that looks like it should be 35 to 40 miles per hour having, having no houses on it whatsoever.

Um, and it was 25 and he was there in an unmarked car. I just wasn't paying attention to the speed limit sign and I was going like 40. 

[00:02:35] Brie Tucker: So, oh my gosh. Yeah. I, well, you know me, I'm always late, so is it really shocking that I've had 15 speeding tickets in my life? I mean, come on. Really? Uh, I, I haven't gotten any in a while out here.

I used to get 'em a lot because the other thing too is, so maybe this is another factor. I drove a lot. I was a home visitor. 

[00:02:55] JoAnn Crohn: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:55] Brie Tucker: I did pediatric in-home therapy. So I was just in my car five days a week for a ll day long. 

[00:03:03] JoAnn Crohn: Mm-hmm. . 

[00:03:03] Brie Tucker: So yeah, it was, it was a lot of driving. I got a lot of tickets, but I will say at the end, I managed to talk myself out of a lot. I have a talent, like 

[00:03:10] JoAnn Crohn: I need, like a talent. 

[00:03:11] Brie Tucker: Our guest says, like our guest says later in the, in the interview, he has a very particular set of skills. I have a very particular set of skills. 

[00:03:18] JoAnn Crohn: I need those skills. I need those skills. Well, our guest today is Dave Hollis. Who we are very excited to interview.

Dave Hollis is an author. He is a podcast host and an entrepreneur, and he helps small business owners as an integrator consultant right now. He's a busy dad to four kids, ages 15, 14, 10, and five, and has been a foster parent also many times over. And he just released a new children's book called Here's To Your Dreams, which is super cute.

We recommend you go get it, so we hope you enjoy our interview with Dave Hollis. 

 It's very nice to meet you.

[00:03:54] Dave Hollis: Hi JoAnn. Hi Brie. Where are you guys? 

[00:03:56] JoAnn Crohn: Hi. Nice to meet ya. 

[00:03:57] Dave Hollis: Where are you guys located? 

[00:03:58] Brie Tucker: Here in Phoenix we're in, we we're in Gilbert. Mm-hmm. Gilbert. Yep. 

[00:04:02] Dave Hollis: Gilbert? Gilbert. I go to Gilbert all the time. 

[00:04:04] Brie Tucker: Oh yeah. Yeah. I heard. Yeah. Like I thought that, I had heard that you, uh, you were out here in Phoenix sometimes. 

[00:04:10] Dave Hollis: Heidi lives in Gilbert, so you know. 

Oh, Heidi. 

You know, I go see the Heidi, the Heidi crew all the time. 

[00:04:16] JoAnn Crohn: Oh, that's awesome. That's cool. She lives in Gilbert. Cause I saw on her Instagram an event she did. And I was trying to figure out the location of the event, because I know she's here and I wanna say it's in downtown Chandler.

It's like the bricks or something. Was it That was I, right? I think so. Okay. Of like, yes. I know my, my event venues, my location. Well, that's cool. Where are you now? 

[00:04:37] Dave Hollis: Uh, I'm in Austin, well outside of Austin, Texas. A little place called Dripping Spring. 45 minutes away. 

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. 

[00:04:43] Brie Tucker: Awesome. That's on my bucket list.

Austin City limits. 

[00:04:45] Dave Hollis: Good spot. It's a good spot. Good music, good people, good vibe. Yeah. I 

love it. 

[00:04:52] JoAnn Crohn: And you've lived there now for a couple years. You moved out a few years ago?

[00:04:55] Dave Hollis: Moved in 2018. So where is that? Four years? Four and a half years. Yeah. Four. 

[00:05:00] JoAnn Crohn: And you moved from where I was before in LA. I know. Cause you worked for Disney and sales.

[00:05:05] Dave Hollis: Yeah. 

[00:05:06] JoAnn Crohn: and I, I take special note of that because I also worked in the entertainment industry as well. I worked for Endeavor. I was a assistant to a talent agent, and so like I'm always like looking at entertainment people and I'm like, it's such a small world, right? Everybody who comes out of entertainment, 

[00:05:21] Dave Hollis: it is weird. I mean, as much as like, man, so much of my identity was wrapped up in working at Disney. . I'm not like, I don't miss it. I'm, I'm happy for the people that are still there, but like when the recent, you know, change of guard, I, I had reported directly to Bob Chapek for 10 years. Mm-hmm. worked obviously with Bob Iger.

Now that Bob Iger's back in as ceo. I got so many texts from people and I'm like, you have mistaken me as someone who is still either working in the company or is interested in coming back.. 

I love that part of my life. It was so amazing. And also I love this part of my life. Thank you very much. It's nice to not have to worry about who's running the organization.

[00:05:59] JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. No, I especially love your story because you've really, I wanna say you've really like, transformed yourself multiple times, multiple careers, multiple passions, and just going after what's in front of you at the time. Cuz I grew up in a household where my, my parents have had, had the same job for 35, 40 years and that's, , you know, I kind of entered the workforce in thinking I'd be at the same job for 30, 40 years.

And it's just not, it doesn't have to be the case. 

[00:06:29] Dave Hollis: Yeah. Well, I mean, what think is the case? Well, it's like, I know I worked really, really, really hard for 20 years in entertainment. So like there was a long period of time where I thought I was climbing this mountain for a certain destination only to realize, that that wasn't the mountain that I was meant to climb for my entire life. And now some of that hard work like created a security that allowed me to take something of a chance and jump away from everything I'd ever known. But now that I've been for these last, you know, four years working inside of a space that I could have never, ever imagined, there is somewhat of a kind of choose your own adventure nature to it because it's entrepreneurial, but it also is.

The things that are gonna connect most with an audience are the things that are gonna be most effective as like resources or tools, whatever are most often gonna be connected to the things I have the most passion for, or amusing or going through in my real life. And so I've kind of just let my own growth journey dictate what it is that I work on or what I create.

And I don't know, there's privilege in that. There's excitement in that. There's, it's, it's a very cool thing. 

[00:07:36] JoAnn Crohn: Kind of gravitating toward what you're interested at the time, would you say? 

[00:07:40] Dave Hollis: Oh, for sure. It's, like I am in the midst of working on a next book and the reality of like how to approach working on it was, um, what's the book that I need to read myself in this stage of my journey?

Like what, you know, prescription would I give myself and like, so it's, it ends up being very specific to the things that I'm working through in identity or the things I'm working through in self-love or the things that I'm working through in all of it. But there's also just like radical relatability that ends up existing because we're all kind of the same, as much as we've had all these different experiences.

And the only thing you can do is like tap into something that you are intimately involved in, in your life at that time. Mm-hmm. and the more that you're, I don't know, willing to be vulnerable, safely vulnerable, I guess, but like vulnerable in, you know, what you're going through and what you're, you know, what tools you're using to try and continue to move forward.

I don't know. It seems like it works. It's the only thing that I would know how to write though, you know? 

[00:08:48] JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, writing what you're going through at the time. I read, Built Through Courage and I loved how you started the book with saying that you thought 2020 was gonna be your best year ever. And I thought that was incredibly relatable to you for so many, many reasons.

[00:09:04] Brie Tucker: Oh my gosh, yes. 

[00:09:04] JoAnn Crohn: For people who went into it like. Yep. And it just created this like path of change. And something I know that parents listening to us have is that a lot of times when they're asked what, what's your goal? Like, what are you working on? What excites you? They have no idea because their day-to-day is so focused on taking care of the kids and making sure everybody else has what they need, that they really have no time to focus on themselves. Have you ever been in that stage of life where you just, you didn't know what direction to go in next? 

[00:09:45] Dave Hollis: I fall into that all the time. Like I don't, I'm not even sure that I'm te totally out of that, you know, at any point in time because, I can get super motivated. I can see very clearly a vision of either what I'd like to accomplish or where I'd like to go.

And then life happens and the chaos and craziness of four kids happens. And yeah, it can, in, you know, having, you have to slow down or take your eye off that goal every once in a while, find you like, wait a second, what am I going for? What is most important? Like, there, there's always gonna be something of opposition between.

This vision of where you'd hope to go and the responsibilities that you have to show up well for your kids and the way that you still need to take care of yourself and the way that you, what might be in a relationship with another person, and those things always tugging on themselves. Have me coming back to a question of how I want my life to feel.

Like how do I wanna feel the day? How do I wanna feel the week? Is there a way that I can create something of lifestyle goals that in having created those lifestyle goals, allow my professional pursuits and my relational pursuits and the way I wanna be the kind of dad I hope to be to my kids fall into the lifestyle that I'm talking about as opposed to it just being about.

you know, reaching this, this big goal on the professional side. I think part of it too, I've had a couple of different careers and I've had some really cool professional success, but I think when I was growing up, I thought that happiness or fulfillment, or, or, or being lovable or whatever it was, was going to.

Um, accessed at the destination when the goal was achieved, the title was achieved, the dollar amount in the bank account was achieved, and none of the times where any kind of achievement happened was there some magic wand that immediately made me feel different about myself. I, yeah, maybe had some pride hitting the goal, but it wasn't like, oh, that's now when all of a sudden, boom.

I love myself in a way that I hadn't loved myself before. And so the work I've had to do is just be super intentional about creating an appreciation for the process, being the thing that you have to fall in love with rather than the destination. 

[00:12:03] JoAnn Crohn: That is such a good point, like, I, I get caught into that thinking too! 

[00:12:07] Dave Hollis: Almost lost in like where they're headed. Just remember that you're only ever where you are. Like, just like be present where your feet. Appreciate that the things that you're going through are hopefully preparing you for whatever ends up coming next. And that this process is where life happens and where fulfillment happens and where, I don't know, like Destina, there's like a, it's like there's a term for it, like destination envy or destination, whatever it, but it's not about getting necessarily to the goal.

And I think you should have goals and I think you should push to achieve. It's about enjoying the, the process along the way. It's about enjoying the journey. Even if you feel lost at times, you're still on the journey and it's okay as long as there's an appreciation for you being where you're supposed to be and learning what you're supposed to learn at this point in time.

[00:12:57] JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, you bring up such a good point because that is something that I am working on in my own life, like not thinking that it's the destination I get to versus the process. It's a really hard mind shift to take. Have you read the book, the Gap and the Gain? 

[00:13:10] Dave Hollis: I have not, 

[00:13:11] JoAnn Crohn: oh my gosh! I totally recommend this book.

So it's , it's all - Brie's like she talks about this book all the time. My goodness. 

[00:13:18] Brie Tucker: Yeah, I think we have a whole episode about it actually, but go on. 

[00:13:21] JoAnn Crohn: Maybe we do. So it's thinking about when you usually think about something, and you set a goal, you'll achieve a certain level in the goal and. , you'll compare that level that you reached to this ideal and you'll be unhappy because you're thinking right here in the gap and where you should be thinking is measuring your progress versus zero from where you started.

Yeah. And that's the gain. And that part of thinking has totally changed my, like my positivity, my outlook, and being able to stay in the moment so much. 

[00:13:54] Dave Hollis: So good. I, I just recently was watching, there was a TED Talk that somebody sent me, and it was about the power of starting with a positive thought over a negative thought in any situation, it reminds me of what you're talking about, but when we are introduced as humans with the failure rate versus the success rate, or if we're introduced with how difficult something might be, instead of the number of people who've actually achieved it.

Our brain almost immediately discounts that it's an even possible thing for us because of this revelation that other people haven't succeeded. 

[00:14:29] JoAnn Crohn: Mm-hmm. , 

[00:14:29] Dave Hollis: where on the other side, when you're able to see those that have succeeded and those who have, you know, achieved this thing first, your brain attaches to the thing, oh, it's possible.

So it's possible for me. Yeah. And so like, it's the, the gap versus gain, it's the same kind of thing. If you're focused on the. You're in trouble, there'll be no traction, momentum, whatever it might be. If you're focused on how the bad thing that can happen, You'll search for the evidence to back up your hypothesis that something bad's gonna happen.

Whereas if you're looking for the good or believe that you, the good will happen. You'll find that same evidence too. Yeah. It's tough as we're humans, 

[00:15:04] JoAnn Crohn: it's it's energy sucking too. Totally. And it's so funny because in this book they're also like, well, you also can't. Like think that you're gonna stay in the gain forever, because that's idealistic thinking in the gap.

So just trying and going towards that goal of thinking more gain thinking, which really brings us to. Transferring this knowledge to our kids. And that's something I love what you've done in Tea time with Noah. It was such a cute story. And her, okay. First of all, I have to address the nautical theme because I notice it in every single one of your works.

And you also have a tattoo, right? That has like a boat on it, or like, what does your tattoo say? 

[00:15:47] Dave Hollis: My tattoo says a ship in harbor is safe, but that's not what ships were built for. I'm not good on boats. I don't even know how I like got into the nautical theme, but to be honest, I mean, I, I, I got this tattoo just as I was leaving this long corporate identity, this long corporate work.

For whatever, whatever the new was going to be. And it was terrifying because I was very familiar with the work that I was doing and I was doing it well, and the decision to leave didn't make sense to almost anyone who I told. And I had to remind myself that just because I'm, you know, going into something new, that that new is of course gonna be the thing that's gonna help me grow and help me learn and help me, you know, become this better, different version of me.

Mm-hmm. . And the thing I think we all, as humans end up having some connection to is comfort and predictability and the idea of the kind of nautical theme, the harbor, right. A. Is actually meant to be out on the choppy seas. It was built to handle the, the choppy waters. By keeping it docked in the harbor, you're underutilizing the intention of its creation.

And so I, you know, I want to be maximally used for all of what I've been designed for. and that means pushing myself into super uncomfortable things and being okay with the chop and the rock and maybe even getting sick in the midst of all of it. But, I have to remind myself all the time cause growth is great except it's hard and growth is great.

[00:17:16] Brie Tucker: Yeah. 

[00:17:16] Dave Hollis: It, you know, can be scary and trigger a whole host of fear and, and, you know, a ton of core wounds and whatever else. 

[00:17:22] JoAnn Crohn: And it doesn't always succeed like something. I appreciated you were so vulnerable about is that when you left Disney and um, you teamed up with Rachel to do her company that you were at the end, you're like, well, this wasn't really my dream.

This was someone else's dream. And I watched you guys all the way through that. I was in the movie theater watching that Rise movie. Like that was like a . So like, seeing that progression and now seeing you in this new thing. And then writing a book, for your daughter, did she have any input in the book when you were writing it?

[00:17:58] Dave Hollis: Oh, yeah. I mean, well, I'll just, the genesis of the book, like when I wrote the first of my books, get Out Of Your Own Way. I had that moment where I was like, gosh. The idea that I even have to write a personal development book suggests that there is something wrong with the way that we are being developed.

At some point in time. The world has some lies. It sells them to us. We believe them instead of our own truths. And then we need books or conferences or something to remind us of who we are, to remind us of our truth. And so in that window of writing was like, God, is there some way that I could start early with my daughter and reinforce some of these ideas for grownups, but in language that a young person can understand?

And so we started shooting a series. It was, to be honest, it was just a really fun thing that we were already doing. And it was great to get her ridiculous and awesome reactions on camera. And this time went by, the publisher reached out and was like, , what do you think about making a kid's book where you do the same kind of thing?

Teaching people with fun an adventure? It doesn't taste like medicine, but there is something good in, in a message. And I was like, yeah, this sounds great. Well, it's been a couple of years, so like we, from the very beginning, we get sketches from different, you know, illustrators, and then we got to kind of narrow down which ones we like, and then we started writing.

I'm telling the story and she's feeding into what she thinks, the, you know, what's the turn here? What's the turn there? And, uh, in a world where like, man, I was hoping that she would be excited about working on a project together. She's been wildly more excited than I could have ever expected. Like, Us getting, 

[00:19:36] Brie Tucker: that's awesome.

[00:19:37] Dave Hollis: First time. And her seeing herself illustrated on the cover of a book. That's like one of the most magical things I think I've ever captured on film. It was so cool. 

[00:19:45] Brie Tucker: Well, I mean, let's just say like how many kids get to have that. True people in general, but right there, kids, like, I'm on a book I, that's me.

That's me. 

You're not on a book? I thought everybody went on a book when they were younger. Right? 

[00:19:58] Dave Hollis: I know, but that's pretty awesome. Yeah. 

[00:20:02] Brie Tucker: Yeah. 

[00:20:03] JoAnn Crohn: and just like the story about encountering self-doubt, because I mean, I think that's something that we need to talk more with about kids because there's this mindset, especially when you're a high achiever or if you're a child who has gotten praise for being a high achiever, that you never wanna be in that situation where it's possible for you to fail, and it takes you, like it goes into adulthood.

You. Oh yeah. So have you seen your kids deal with self-doubt and how have you as a parent kind of approached that? 

[00:20:38] Dave Hollis: I mean, of course I have cuz they are humans. Like everybody else is human and every human has self doubt. Um, the, the really interesting thing in real time is that like Noah is so strong-willed, she is so confident.

She is so sure of herself, that when we get a phone call from the school and it's like, uh, you know, Noah has been, uh, really standing up for herself. I'm like, oh, good girl. That's awesome. They're like, well, And maybe crossing a couple of boundaries in, uh, self-defense. No. Maybe, maybe being a, a first mover in, uh, invading personal space.

[00:21:17] JoAnn Crohn: Gotta push those boundaries to know where the limits are. Right. , 

[00:21:20] Dave Hollis: On the one hand, I don't want in any way to like, put any shade over the light. Like I know she's just got so much light and also, she needs to keep her hands to herself. But, when it comes to overcoming self-doubt, the, I mean, I can tell them a whole host of things.

The thing I'm trying to do most is model how I also as a person have self-doubt and I'm putting myself into situations that force me to confront. and be humbled at times by a lack of experience, whatever it might be. So I'll like the example I'll give in real time. About a month ago I did a physique competition, which, oh yes, I saw this.

Oh yeah, no, I mean, what? What are we even doing here? I'm not sure that I would ever have seen myself standing the stage oiled up with a bunch of tanner flexing muscles, and yet I did it. And if I had known what I was getting into, to be honest, I don't even know if I would have, because it was one of the most.

Discipline necessary. Like I, I worked so hard, uh, to do this thing, but I got there and I went backstage and it was very, very apparent that the people who were entering this competition had been at it for considerably longer period of time than the six months that I had been at it. Mm-hmm. . And so, yeah, I had a lot of self-doubt backstage.

Yeah. I had a lot of self-doubt going into the competition. My, my kids were witness. I also flew my kids to the competition so that they could see me standing on stage, as it turns out, with 11 of other competitors inside of my class. And as much as they didn't give out a last place, I'm pretty sure I got last place.

Like I, and I'm, I'm like, I'm comfortable suggesting that I got last place. And it was, it had no effect on the way that I felt pride for the work that I put in. It had no effect on the way that I was proud of confronting the fear of, of walking in there or the way that walking into the auditorium with 600 people sitting in the stand.

I was like, what are all these people doing here? I thought we were doing a small show. This is crazy. And so modeling a little bit of like, Hey, I'm gonna do scary things. I'm gonna try, whether it's a physical thing or something new in, in my professional life, whatever it might be, I'm gonna do this thing and I'm nervous about it, and I might have some doubt about it, but the only way that I'm gonna create a little more confidence is by confronting that fear.

maybe even failing, maybe getting last place in something. Maybe being humbled by it. Mm-hmm. , but through that experience, learning in a way that now the next time I want to do a fitness competition, or the next I wanna do anything, I can say, oh yeah, it wasn't as bad as I was worried it would be. I learned all these things that I would not have otherwise learned, and now armed with that information, I'm much more confident going into the next thing that is new because I have evidence that I can handle doing new things.

I have evidence that I can survive failing. I can, I have evidence that I can put myself out there. And not die. All right. Let's go. 

[00:24:17] JoAnn Crohn: I love it. And I think it's like the best way to teach kids is through the experiences of parents and what parents like put forth, I think it's Ed Millet who said something like the worst form of the worst thing you could do as a parent is not like realize your true potential because you're showing them what's possible.

Yeah, and it's, it's so interesting cuz I try to make myself vulnerable in those situations too, but like mine are more relationship based. I'm very shy and I don't like confrontation or conflict whatsoever. So I find myself narrating my text messages that I'm writing with my kids when I have those conversations and I'm telling them about it so that they feel that conflict's normal in relationships.

Like something like I had trouble with. I was like younger. Right. It's, it's an awesome thing. 

[00:25:07] Dave Hollis: Way to do it. 

[00:25:08] JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. So what are you doing next? What is exciting you right now? 

[00:25:12] Dave Hollis: Well, I mean, I have turned my professional focus for the last handful of months actually into a thing that I have really enjoyed, but that it's totally different than what I've been working on in the last couple of years.

And that. Small business consulting, for lack of a better word, in every organization there needs to be two. Kinds of people, if the organization's gonna really fully meet its potential. There's a great book called Rocket Fuel that talks about this, know it visionary and an and an integrator. And as much as I think I have some vision, I have a super set of skills like.

Liam Neeson around figuring out the how to someone else casting a vision for the what. And so finding these different people who've got great ideas, who've got a lot of vision, but don't necessarily know how to fully, totally implement mm-hmm. that idea or make it profitable or organize the team or whatever it might be.

I've been spending time in, in these smaller companies or, personality-based businesses, smaller businesses, trying to work with people who are trying to make an impact on this world. And, I've got four, four nice for-profit clients. Two nice, pro bono nonprofit organizations that I get to work with.

And, it still gives me time to do some writing. Still gives me time to work on the podcast and, uh, it's been great! 

[00:26:33] JoAnn Crohn: That is quite, well, I guess it's not quite the shift from what you did before because you had all that business experience and it's like the next kind of iteration and change. 

[00:26:40] Dave Hollis: Also true way. Yeah. It's weird because this last, I mean the last couple years, there's just been so much in life. And there are components of this bizarrely semi-public version of what my life has become. Uh, I'm not sure that I love, yeah, I mean, I, I like it in some ways and it, hasn't necessarily been, um, it's been a trigger sometimes for some of the stuff that I, don't necessarily like in terms of how I feel about myself or the way that I have been tempted historically to drink or something like that.

I'm like, well, you may have identified the cause of some of the pain that's existed in your life. You get a choice. You wanna continue to spend as much time public. And, have some of that pain present, or do you wanna pursue a little bit more of a private life and, and enjoy the things that exist, you know, in real time?

So I've stepped back quite a bit from social and I can't say that I miss it that much. And yeah, it doesn't mean that I might not go back. You know, it's like I just, I'll, I'll spend time there when I feel like it and. . I just don't feel like it that often right now. . 

[00:27:46] JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. No, I couldn't imagine having my life be as public as yours has for the past two years.

Yeah. And I did, I did notice the time when you said that you were stepping back from social media, because I feel like everything out there and everyone has an opinion on it, and nobody has the whole story. Anytime. No. So like why subject yourself to it? Exactly. 

[00:28:09] Dave Hollis: Yeah. Yeah. When it's, when it feels fun, when it feels right.

When it feels like it adds to my life. Absolutely. If it doesn't, I don't need to. And that's okay. . 

[00:28:19] Brie Tucker: That's another, well, and that's another great listen for our kids. Mm-hmm. , right? That cause I mean, they're growing up in a whole different life than we did social media. All this technology came about at, for most of us in our age group, like.

after a little while we, we had the times without it, and then now our kids have it all the time. It's good for them to be able to see that, those kind of healthy boundaries, but that you can still use it in a positive way. 

[00:28:42] Dave Hollis: Yeah. I'm terrified of my kids accessing social media, to be honest. Like they don't have, I have a 15, 14, 10 and five year old and, uh, none of them have access to social media.

And may not, to be honest, until they've left our homes. I don't know. 

[00:28:58] Brie Tucker: But still they see you modeling these healthy boundaries. Like that's the important part. Like you were already talking about, about being brave and showing them all these things. You're modeling it for them so they have something to reflect back upon and be like, okay, yeah, it's good.

This worked. So, yeah. 

[00:29:14] Dave Hollis: Well, that's a good, good point. I gotta be even more consistent in model. 

[00:29:19] JoAnn Crohn: The social media thing is hard with kids. My daughter wanted Instagram for the longest time and the only way she negotiated it was she started just a baking Instagram where she put her like baking creations.

There you go on it. And I see it more as a mentoring standpoint. I want her to be on it. And I want to have connection to her account and I wanna see what's going on on it. I'm also friends with all of her friends on Instagram. They might block me, so I might not see much of it. I don't think they do.

I see a lot, but , they should be blocking me more. 

[00:29:49] Dave Hollis: Yeah, that's good. 

I mean, I, I think back to when I was in junior high or high school, like it was already hard. Feeling like I was good enough or that I was accepted in certain circles.

I can't even imagine subjecting yourself to right social media in the way that it could accelerate any of the insecurity or any of the worry or any of the anxiety. Ugh. Pass. Yeah. 

[00:30:11] JoAnn Crohn: Hard pass for me. And then seeing when your friends are hanging out without you, I would think that would be a killer. That would brutal be a total killer for me.

Brutal high school. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it has been wonderful shouting with you and getting to know you, Dave, and I'm very excited to see what you do next and what you put out there. And uh, 

[00:30:28] Dave Hollis: thank you JoAnn. Thanks Brie. Wonderful. I really appreciate you guys. It's been fun. 

[00:30:32] Brie Tucker: Yeah. Well thank you so much. And we have a link to all the books we've been talking about, I've been keeping my nice little list over here, so we'll have links, all of that in our show notes.

Amazing. Awesome. Well, thank you. Thanks. 

[00:30:45] JoAnn Crohn: Thank you. 

I enjoy talking with David and bringing up like all the self-development stuff because I feel there's so few people I can nerd out with about self-development, 

[00:30:54] Brie Tucker: we'll admit, in this podcast, I just kind of sat there quietly quite a bit. I was like, I love it. 

[00:31:00] JoAnn Crohn: And I love, that's a jam . I love like all the thinking behind it and everything and how to teach it to our kids because it has made such a difference in my own life to like kind of switch the way I think about things.

And it's also strategies they do teach you when you go into therapy. And I think that more pe like people don't necessarily have to go in, they shouldn't have to go into therapy to learn the strategies, is what I'm saying. True. Yeah. Therapy's a great thing, but um, these strategies are beneficial.


[00:31:30] Brie Tucker: Wherever. Yeah. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. I will say the most interesting part about the interview was at the end. End was at the end. So like, we're using this, you, you guys have wouldn't say so much. The most interesting part of the interview. . See part, the funniest part.

It was funny to me because it was so weird. So like, okay. Because we talk about our tech stuff all the time. You're right. It wasn't the most interesting, but it was an interesting to Brie on the, on the, uh, podcast producer side. So we are using, um, our new for, uh, this new platform so we can have these lovely videos for you all here in podcast land.

And it wouldn't upload. It was taking forever to upload. We were on there for like, like we're just 

[00:32:13] JoAnn Crohn: 20 minutes waiting for it to upload and like Dave had to leave just like empty room. 

[00:32:18] Brie Tucker: He's like, I gotta go. I'm gonna leave this right here. I leave the computer open and I'm like, oh. So embarrassed. I'm, I hope you don't think we're like trying to come up with a way to stay on like.

We just need your files so we can have the sound from this interview. , we just need your files. Give us call. I know, I know the sound. That sounds like so other sneaky to it. Like, no, that's what 

[00:32:41] JoAnn Crohn: we, this is what we do in podcast land. We're like, we talk about files and downloads and mics and. Oh, that's internet connection 

[00:32:49] Brie Tucker: a lot and learning how to turn on 

[00:32:51] JoAnn Crohn: the mic.

All those. And turn on the mic. That was funny though. Yesterday you wanna? 

[00:32:56] Brie Tucker: We were late for a podcast interview yesterday because Brie does not apparently know where the on off switch is. And not only do I not know where it is like. JoAnn asked three times, what was your mic on? And I'm like, yes, it's on it.

As. Then I look at it closer and like I was looking at the O and I'm like, oh, o, n for on. It's also how you spell off O . F F. So the O was not what I thought the O was for. Anyway. It happens. It happens. Let's learned. Yeah, 

[00:33:26] JoAnn Crohn: learned. Remember the best. Mom is a happy mom. Take care of you. We'll talk to you later.

[00:33:32] Brie Tucker: Thanks for stopping by.